Equipment

Heaters. Diesel vs gas shoot out

Diesel ducted heating v gas ducted heating … the gloves are off

This is a topic which is always good for predictable and polar opposite viewpoints in any social media discussion.  Unfortunately, many ‘online experts’ opinions are often based on “my XYZ heater is the best for sure” which is usually supported simply on the basis that they themselves have XYZ heater, and not much else.

Social media is choked with people seeking validation on their personal choices, and the typical “reviews” are based on limited or absent research and nothing deeper than the desire to agreed with.   As with all vested views, few people will publically admit they got the shit one.

Out of the blocks and in the interests of transparency I have a diesel heater, I love it and it’s been flawless.

In this article I’ll be sticking to only the branded from the stables of units Truma for gas and Eberspacher for diesel, although Webasto is interchangeable with Eberspacher.

There are cheap knockoffs in diesel heaters and they run much the same as Eberspacher and Webasto and most of the data in this article broadly applied to them to.   The Eberspacher and Webasto are eye-wateringly expensive but I personally wouldn’t put my faith in the knocks-offs from a seal quality, support and durability perspective … that said the Chinese knock-offs at the chump change price point are hard to completely ignore … but ignore I will

There are seals inside a diesel heater and they are the only barrier we’re relying on to keep the carbon monoxide generated in combustion process inside the heater.   I’ve had plenty enough experience with Chinese component failures and the quality of Chinese rubber in cheap parts for fuel systems and Im not about to roll the dice with carbon monoxide.

The reason I have a diesel heater, and the reason why I chose Eberspacher was pretty simple and the result of a very confronting weekend camping reality check.   Many years ago we took our first full size  caravan on a weekend get together and soiree with a large group of caravaners into central Victoria during a particularly cold southern winter, and even more unusually cold weekend.

I was full of confidence in our new caravan because I “knew” that the rooftop reverse cycle aircon I paid a lot of money for would heat the van adequately in “any” climate (how wrong about that, I was about to painfully discover).   Just for a laugh, I thought it would be particularly opulent and excessive to throw in an electric blow heater to superheat the bathroom like a luxury Casino resort room.

That weekend was very, (very) cold and the temperature quickly plummeted to below zero quite early into the first evening of the weekend.  Even for us well seasoned, born and bred Mexicans it was bitterly cold.   Standing around the fire drum having a few cordials and more than a few laughs, I was oblivious to the horror that I would shortly discover … the fire almost became an instrument of survival.

Barb returned to the van to cook dinner and shortly after sent our youngest son to summon me urgently, the reverse cycle aircon in our new van had blown a valve, not only stopped working but was now blowing cold air.  It was at that point after seeking the counsel of other caravaners I discovered to my absolute horror reverse cycle aircons all have a temperature point where the pump can no longer function, and in our particular case that turned out to be around 4 degrees … and that was by now 4 degrees ago because it was now zero.

Our van temperature quickly plummeted and it was now almost as cold inside as it was outside.

Thankfully I packed the blow heater, but rather than just an opulent joke it was now not only our only inadequate and singular source of heat, it barely made life bearable in the freezing conditions.   The little blow heater was flogging away on high and struggling to keep out 20ft caravan at 15 degrees.  At least it was marginally better than nothing.

One of the people in the group with an identical new caravan had a diesel heater installed from new.  The happy owners loudly sang the diesel heater’s praises and I was invited to check it out (and endure what became a rolling joke).  I gave it a thorough going over and was very very impressed to say the least.   I did hear the dreaded pump tick, but at the time it didn’t garner any concern.  The diesel heated caravan was so damn hot inside I almost passed out   I couldn’t believe how warm and how uniformly heated it was, and I ran excitedly to get Barb.  I was sure the chicken they were having for dinner had cooked itself just sitting on the bench.

That was Friday night and we struggled through the freezing weekend, heading home Sunday afternoon.   By 9.05am on Monday morning, I had an Eberapacher Airtronic D2 diesel heater kit on a truck heading my way from a local supplier.   By the following weekend, I had completed the installation.

The cheap knockoffs weren’t as common back then, but they were around.   The unit I experienced and was star-struck by was the Eberspacher Airtronic D2.   That’s what blew my mind and that’s the one I wanted, and there was no way I was going to risk a lesser outcome so that is what I got.   Its proved its worth repeatedly for years and performed flawlessly.   I have serviced it twice in 7 years, but its had a fair workout out so I consider that acceptable.  Servicing is a consideration that Ill address further in the article

I had no idea if gas heaters were even around back then but that would not have affected my choice.   With all the diesel and gas heater facts I have today, I’m still not sure I would choose gas over diesel but I do believe gas matches the diesel heater, and mostly outperforms it.   There are aspects of the diesel heater that despite being mostly outperformed by the gas unit, for me those points carry a lot of weight.

A very important point to make is the Im comparing the current heaters.  The previous gas heater was single speed and single output, and for me a single output heater would never have been an option.  The current gas model is a much much better multi-speed, multi-output.   In short single-speed, single-output heaters are either on or off and when on are running flat out.  To function, the thermal range is much the same a reverse cycle aircon with the cut-in and cut-out creating a constant horrible fluctuation from lower cut-in parameter to the higher cut-out above the set temperature which unavoidably ends up going from too hot to too cool repeatedly as it bounces 4 degrees of so around the set temperature

Unit costs.  With heater unit purchase costs, and the ability to research and wheel and deal online the purchase price of a Truma or Eberspacher will likely end up somewhere around a similar price point.   Sourcing the Eberspacher unit offshore, particularly from the UK will provide savings for relatively little risk.

Installation.  Diesel heater installation its mostly plug and play, doesn’t require any licensing or regulatory compliance and the entire installation is well within the skillset of most handy people.   Gas heater installation requires gas compliance so whilst the unit placement and ductwork can be done by the handyman, a 3rd party gas plumber certification is required, and that will attract significant a cost.

If your are not handy and outsourcing the heater installation both units will add similar cost to the purchase price and likely end somewhere close enough to the same.

The diesel heater’s combustion intake and exhaust go straight down from the heater unit through the floor and as a result, the heater can be installed almost anywhere often resulting in a more favourable place.

The gas unit needs to be flued horizontally to an external wall, so the location of the heater needs to have direct access while concealing and protecting the flue pipe.  Gas regulations have some impact of flue installation too close to a door or window.  None of these requirements are a deal breaker but will almost always have at least some impact on the most ideal installation location.   In maybe a few instances it might make the gas not practical or impossible.

Its important with the gas heater to confirm all gas plumbing and the installation location is compliant and signed off.  I know from repeated personal experience that caravan dealers and service centres will use unqualified and unskilled staff to do all work including gas plumbing, which is not only illegal but dangerous and a potential insurance issue none of us need.

An article written by industry supplier Everything Caravans, states that there were a selection of gas heaters available overseas that failed muster under Australian AGA compliance and as a result, the Truma gas heater is the only gas unit available in Australia with AGA certification.

That said, with our country’s generally rubbish safety record when it comes to definitive action (Takata airbags, Swift stoves, Suburban HWS etc etc) that info certainly doesn’t inspire me with confidence.

Heater repairer Everything Caravans suggest from their experience that diesel heaters are more robust when it comes to use in offroad vans, but I suspect that would mean true hard-core offroading.

Running. Before the appearance of Trumas multi-speed, multi-output VarioHeat unit like a house ducted heater, the gas heater when running is either on or off which is one of my personal dislikes; ie it comes on flat out at maximum output until the preset is reached and then it switches off until the temperature drops by a predetermined low trigger point where it bursts back into life.   The temp variation between off and on in the case of the Truma 2400 was 4 degrees.

The new VarioHeat unit has two output levels and a variable fan.  Whilst it’s still not as ‘fine tuned’ as the multi output diesel heater it should run much much better.

By comparison, the diesel unit varies its output automatically depending on demand.   The diesel unit comes on at maximum output and reduces automatically in both fan speed and output to a silent low once it reaches the preset temperature.

The diesel heater will remain on low until its switched off, or the ambient temperature rises above the preset as it would naturally in the morning sunshine.   In real-world practical terms you can leave the diesel heater switched on 27/7, and it will silently turn itself on (on low) as the temperature drops and off again as the temperature rises all automatically keeping the van temperature perfect 24/7

The diesel heater is fed diesel by a dosing pump, which until recently makes a metallic ticking sound. The dose pump is electromagnetically fired and with each pulse, it provides a constant and precise “dose” of fuel.   The dose volume remains constant and the rate of the pulse is dependent on demand ie but the frequency of the ticking increases and decreases to match that demand … and this is one of the diesel heater’s most well-deserved criticisms.

The dosing pump audibly ticks each time it pumps a dose to the heater, much like a loudish clock.  The pump can dose up to twice a second at maximum output, and down to every 2 seconds or so when the heater is on low but it ticks, and it ticks, and it ticks, and it relentlessly ticks.

When you hear the ticking during a daytime demo in the caravan park the ticking is easily dismissable …. but in the dead of night located under chassis directly under the bed it can be a completely different story (think Little Drummer Boy and the Chinese Water Torture combined)

It didn’t bother me at all, but it took Barb months to get used to it.   That may sound good for me, but although I could switch the ticking in my mind, Barb’s constant tossing and turning, moaning, sighing and complaining was not so easy.

Eberspacher’s current generation of diesel heaters come with a newly developed silent dose pump, so that infernal ticking is a thing of past.   I don’t believe any of the knock-off diesel heaters have a silent dose pump.

Inside the caravan the only sound is the fan blowing out the hot air, and that’s both gas and diesel.  The fan can be quite loud but that sound is just a welcome audible reassurance that the heater is pumping and we’ll all be toasty warm soon enough.   Outside is very different with the noise between the two heaters.

The gas heater is deathly silent out the caravan.   The diesel heater sounds like a roaring furnace after it starts up and will quiet right down to almost silent once it’s up to temperature.   While camping recently in the thick wet wintery Victorian bush we walked around 30mtrs from a caravan and we could very clearly hear the recently started diesel heater roaring.

The audio from the diesel heater is both the exhaust and air intakes combined, although the air intake is louder than the exhaust and it stands to reason when the heater reaches temperature and slows down the exhaust and air intake step down to almost silent.

Both the gas and diesel heaters are very efficient in the combustion process and when in prime working order both produce very little carbon monoxide.

It’s very (VERY) important not to be enticed into trying to quieten down the diesel heaters air intake or exhaust because any (ANY) restrictions will result in a rise of carbon and carbon monoxide production.

Subtle restrictions that will result in combustion efficiency reduction can result just by making the air intake or exhaust too long or adding too many bends.   Any reduction in combustion efficiency is not necessarily particularly dangerous because we’re taking about what’s happening outside the caravan not inside, and it just adds to carbon build-up in the heater and will reduce the time between any service intervals.

The noise level a diesel heater makes for around 30 minutes if so isn’t any worse than any other normal camping sounds, cars idling, aircons running, people talking etc etc.   It’s certainly not unbearable or embarrassing by any stretch.

These are audio recordings made outside our caravan on the side where the diesel heaters exhaust and air intake are located.   The recordings are taken of our diesel heater at various distances and levels of output.

From inside the caravan, you won’t hear much of this at all … but the neighbours might

The diesel dose pump is recorded under the van next to where the pump is mounted.

The air intake recorded close to the inlet under the van

The air intake with a piece of foam as a muffler was recorded close to the inlet under the van

The heater operating at maximum output recorded 2 mtrs off to the side of the van (You’ll need the volume of both the computer and audio player on high to hear this one)

The heater operating at near minimum output recorded 2 mtrs off to the side of the van (You’ll need the volume of both the computer and audio player on high to hear this one)

The pump will likely be installed attached to the chassis under the floor, but if the pump is installed nearer the bed it may well drive you insane.  I sleep like a corpse but Barb is a light sleeper.   Our pump is under our bed and whilst I dont hear it, it took Barb some time to get over the ticking and early on she often turned the heater off during the night.   Now we’re both oblivious to it … a bit like living next to a train line I guess, eventually you’ll be too tired to care.

The fuel path for the diesel heater is tank, low-pressure line to the pump, pump, high-pressure line to the heater.   The low-pressure fuel line can be up to a maximum 2 mtrs from the fuel tank to the pump.  The high-pressure line can be upto 5 mtrs or so from the pump to the heater.  That means the fuel tank must be within 2 mtrs of the pump, so if the fuel tank is mounted around the drawbar the pump will need to be mounted up the front as well and likley under where the bed is located in most caravans.  If the fuel tank is mounted at the rear of the van the pump can be positioned well away from the bed, down the back of the van somewhere and further away in you opt for a Chinese ticking pump.

The gas heater has an exterior wall-mounted flue, which used to be capped off when the heater is not in use.  Nowadays they don’t supply the cap for some reason which you might want to look at for camping areas where mud wasps are prevalent.  The heater of course can’t be used unless the flue cap is removed and that may well have to form part of the list of usual camp setup practice, either that or you’ll be doing a 6am nudie run outside in 5 degrees to un-cap the flue, to be able to turn the heater on.

While we’ve never experienced the mud wasp issue, the diesel heater would potentially have the same issue.

The diesel unit has the ability to connect a programmable timer, a remote control, and a phone-in module if you are particularly tech or automation driven.   The diesel heater is a true one-button device, turn it on and leave it on, and it will work out for itself when to fire up and when to shut down … including whilst your towing if you wish which is a real bonus once you use that capability.   The gas unit cannot safely be used in transit

In transit in colder climates, 30min or so before we stop for morning tea or lunch we’ll often turn the diesel on.  It is one of those great little options you’ll never fully appreciate until you have enjoyed it

The operational differences between gas and diesel in theory mean the diesel heater can be always on and therefore operating at a very low output.  Turning itself on and off automatically when required including while driving.

Fuel consumption.  Maximum fuel consumption specs are the only fair and true spec-based comparison, without running each of the heaters in identical vans together at the same time side by side with airflow meters, thermal devices etc.   Real-world usage won’t see either of the heaters max out on fuel consumption for anywhere near 100% of the time.  Both units reduce output and fuel consumption considerably once they reach their preset temperature.   The 2.8kW gas heater uses 193 grams of gas per hour during maximum output.   The diesel heater consumes 280ml of diesel per hour during maximum output.

On coolish nights or just maintaining a temperate overnight comfortable sleeping temperature the heaters will only be running at their minimum outputs.   At start-up in cool conditions outside temperatures, the heaters would be running at constant maximum output.  The gas heater has two settings high (2800w) and low (1300w) and the diesel heater has 4 settings from high (2200w) to low (850w)

The diesel heater has a more subtle ability to maintain heat accurately, and while the gas heater has only two outputs it should largely do the same thing within reasonable expectations.   The diesel heater has the ability to maintain temp at a very low output, where as the gas heaters low output is significantly higher so will to a least a small extent produce and more frequent and pronounced on/off, hot/cold cycling.

The gas heater is 2.8kW output, whereas the appropriate caravan diesel unit is 2.2kW so based on specifications the diesel will on paper be generally working harder for longer than the gas unit to get to temperature before it reduces to a maintenance output.   Eberspacher have a 5kW unit but diesel heaters are oil burners and are required to regularly run at high output to reduce carbon buildup so don’t be tempted to use a larger unit with the idea it will run less; it will run less, but it will also choke itself to death.

Over winter and the shoulder seasons where the days can be warm and sunny, but the nights get down to zero our diesel heater consumes on average around one litre of diesel per day cycle.   During that scenario when the heater is used most days we just leave the heater turned on all the time and let it do what it does best, silently keeping our van at the perfect temperature day and night.   During the day as the sun warms the van the heater automatically shuts itself down completely.   As soon as the sun goes down and the chill appears the heater automatically comes to life on low and silently maintains the preset temperature without any input from us.   The gas unit should do exactly the same thing

In very cold weather, we’ll often leave the heater on overnight on a reduced temperature just to take the chill out of the air.   On low a diesel heater is close to silent as is the gas unit.

Fuel consumption is very similar in both units, and close enough that the runnings costs probably arent significant enough on their own to form any basis of choice between the two units.

Gas heaters are more thermally efficient but with the massive rip-off of bottle gas price in comparison to pump price gas running costs are similar.    At the $1.00 per ltr mark for servo pump gas, a 8.5kg bottle contains $16.00 of gas …. yet a bottle of gas is double that at around $30.00

Using the table below you can adjust the fuel unit cost for each heater unit.  The unit costs are the most common and obvious, Diesel is pump price and gas is bottle swap or bottle refill price.   Enter the current fuel prices units yourself to get an indicative cost comparison when the heaters are using the maximum output costs of each unit as per the publicised specifications

Power consumption. Both units being 12v means they are both exceptional must-haves for off-grid freecamping, and fortunately both units have relatively low 12v power consumption. The gas unit chews a min 0.65A to a max 2.75A, the diesel min 0.30A  to a max of 1.4A.   The diesel has a glow plug to initially ignite the fuel at startup and for a few minutes will ramp upto to 4.2A during each cold start.

Gas heaters are completely maintenance-free, but diesel heaters require a recommended annual or biannual service to maintain efficient operation.  Gas heaters burn clean where diesel heaters produce carbon in the burning of the diesel.   We service our diesel heater every 2 years, but its a process that requires some knowledge, some confidence, some down and dirty hands-on participation.

If your not handy or not prepared to take the plunge then the choice of a diesel heater would include taking the van to a service agent for the heater service.  As with anything with caravan in its name, caravan diesel heater service  I have heard people paying upto $500 …. and that’s a service not a repair which would add at least parts cost.

The diesel heater builds up carbon deposits that if left unattended will impact efficiency and cause running issues including among other things significant smoking on start-up.   Smoking is usually the tell tail sign of carbon blockage … which from personal experience may cause passers-by to panic, bang on the door and try to force an emergency evacuation for what they believe to be a burning caravan.

The video just below is our heater smoking during start-up after I decided to push the service interval out a little too far.   As long as you don’t allow this to continue too long without intervention, no damage is caused by the start of any carbon build-up, it just provides more of an embarrassing sideshow for onlookers.

Carbon buildup will cause inefficiency which will cause more carbon, and ignored that will lead eventually to damage to the heater.

There are two important takeaways from the video below.   The first is a song playing in the background.  I filmed this in my factory with the radio playing in the background.   In the 20 seconds the video plays the Youtube algorithms identified the song and smacked me with a copywrite infringement for all of 20 seconds.  Pretty ruthless I thought, but lesson learned.

The second more important point is right at the end of the video the significant and impressive smoke show abruptly stops, and this is the exact point where the heater finishes the start-up phase and the glow plug turns off.   The glow plug turns off and the heater fires up to its normal full running condition, perpetually maintaining combustion no longer requiring the glow plug.   This is a typical result of an otherwise healthy heater with the glow plug screen starting to block with carbon.

The remedy for this is the simple 20 or so minutes service to remove, clean and/or replace the plug screen from the in-situ heater.  The heater doesn’t need to removed if you can access in situ and while it’s always good to have a screen and glow plug in the spares box, its likely you’ll be able to effectively clean the screen and replace it and the entire process requires no parts replacement.

A diesel heater needs to be run on maximum output regularly to help clean it itself out, and to ideally burn off any build up.  It’s important to avoid running the heater on a low settings for long periods, and that’s why it’s not advisable to buy a bigger heater than what you actually need which will generally run lower all the time and rarely run on high much at all.   A diesel heater should not be run for short periods either ie on and off repeatedly as this will increase the potential for carbon deposits.

Periodic maintenance is vital for ongoing diesel heater efficiency.  The key elements of a diesel heater service are to clean or replace the glow plug, and glow plug screen and to remove any carbon deposits from the combustion chamber. The fuel filter should also be replaced, and fuel and exhaust lines checked.

The cheapest handyman heater service where the heater is removed and broken down would cost in parts a minimum of at least one gasket at $20 to a potential $300 for replacement of all service parts.   These figures would be in addition to a service undertaken by a professional service agent.

A glow plug and glow plug screen check is relatively easy and free of replacement parts.   This minimum service can be done with the heater in-situ so long as it’s accessible.  Anything more than the glow plug and glow plug screen check will require the entire heater to be removed, dismantled, checked, cleaned, and at least some parts replaced.

None of this routine service cost or process will ever be required for a gas heater because it produces no carbon buildup.

Tilted opinions, myths and campfire stories

A gas bottle will last longer for the gas heater than a diesel tank.  That is true, a 8.5kg gas bottle holds around 16ltrs of gas … but while most folks buy the flat 10ltr diesel tank there is no such thing as a standard diesel tank, you can use anything you like ie a flower pot or a 20ltr jerry can.  When it comes to tank size gas has the only restriction to heater fuel tank size.

You can get a cup of diesel but you can’t get a cup of gas.  This one is the assumption you can ‘borrow’ diesel from elsewhere ie a fellow camper, in order to run the heater when you accidentally run out of fuel.

While in theoretical terms that is true, in all reality who would ever wander the campground asking other campers for a cup of diesel for their heater?   Siphoning from your own cars could be an option if you drive a diesel an syphoning is physically possible.

We do often carry a 20ltr jerry for the car anyway, but with our heater we have always have a two-litre bottle of diesel tucked away in the toolbox for such emergencies and rationed that adequately covers us for two days allowing us to sort out a long term solution at our leisure.

You can easily top up the tank daily as required with a milk bottle of diesel youve obtained from a petrol station as you’re out and about.

Diesels heaters stink.   There can be a very light scent on start up.  I say scent intentionally because its not strong or offensive and only lasts a minute or so during the glow plug start up process.   A well-maintained diesel heater does not smell, and any offensive smell indicates something is amiss.  The combustion process of a well-maintained diesel heater is very efficient with minimal waste.

Diesel heaters are noisy.  The noise most people hear is mostly the roar of the air intake when the heater is running on high and that can be noisy.  It not any louder than your average caravan aircon and will progressively settle down to virtually silent in 30min or so.   Mufflers are available and can make a significant difference but you risk restricting airflow and causing a carbon buildup

You’ll run out of gas quickly because you already use your gas for cooking, fridge, and hot water.   Although a gas heater will consume around 5 times that of a 220ltr fridge you likely will use it sparingly.  A full bottle (which most vans have two) would last at least a week running the heater around 10 hours per day so while it will have an impact on overall use it’s completely manageable.

I don’t want to carry a second fuel (diesel for a heater) and my vans carry gas already.    This is the one I understand the least.  Regardless of which of the three fuels your car uses, petrol, diesel or gas, the caravan gas may as well be a fourth fuel source.  Generally speaking, the diesel pump is either with the petrol pump or very close by.   If your car is diesel then it couldn’t be easier to top a well-placed diesel heater fuel tank without even moving the car.   Even if your car runs on gas, the caravan’s gas stored in a bottle is as foreign in practical terms and always further away than petrol and diesel at the pump.  Whichever way you look at it gas bottle swaps or gas refills are always located well away from the fuel pumps and often in the next suburb.

There was not a single scenario where topping up our diesel heater tank was more difficult or less convenient than swapping or refilling a gas bottle.

A key point with the diesel heater’s tank it is only ever “topped up” regardless of its content levels, on the other hand unless you want half empty gas bottles piling up a gas bottle is usually drained drybefore its  refilled or swapped.   Refills are at least less convenient and becoming increasingly difficult to find in favour of bottle swaps.

Out in the real world, before heading off to a freecamp with our less than full diesel heater tank, I would simply top up the tank from a jerry before we leave or top it up on the way when I get fuel in the car.

Diesel heater pumps annoyingly tick and drives you mad.   Yes they used to, but the new models don’t tick

Gas bottles or refills cost a small fortune in remote Australia.   Yes, they absolutely do.  But … in remote Oz particluarly the north the weather is probably more an aircon rather than heater environment

In summary, both heaters are fantastic and neither has a knockout punch up its sleeve.  They both heat incredibly well and all the info above is really semantics and drilling into the fine print.  At city prices the running costs are close enough, but servicing will add significant cost to the diesel heater if you cant sort that DIY so the decision will generally come down to the inconvenience of maintenance and its costs and what aspects of the fuel convenience are important to you.

My conclusion.  Gas is more efficient, more powerful, has no routine maintenance costs, and on the spec sheet gas equals or trumps diesel on most points.

I just can’t ignore diesel’s fuel convenience over gas, and Im very comfortable with the DIY servicing aspects.  The diesel heater’s fuel availability and the numerous no -fuss ways to easily micro-manage its usage as the fuel source is the fudge factor for me the more thn levels up any of the diesel heaters cons against the gas’s pros.  The ability with the diesel heater to have a programmable timer, remote control and SIM dialler is next level convenience

With newer caravans, their large lithium batteries, large solar systems, compressor fridges, inverters and the ability to transfer to solar fuelled electricity much of the appliance tasks previously squarely in the realm of gas, 2 x 9kg bottles of gas will now go and incredibly long way.   We even preheat our hot water via the inverter and use the gas just to keep it hot once the sun goes down.

All this combined (and now with the relegation of the single output gas heater to history) its now the age of the gas heater.   (I do still have a massive soft spot for my diesel heater)

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